Full Interview: Edward Snowden On Trump, Privacy, And Threats To Democracy | The 11th Hour | MSNBC
TLDREdward Snowden, the former NSA contractor turned whistleblower, discusses his views on returning to the United States, the importance of whistleblower rights, and the impact of his disclosures on society. He emphasizes the need for a fair trial where the jury can assess the motives behind whistleblowing, criticizes the Espionage Act for not allowing this, and highlights the difference between journalism sources and foreign spies. Snowden also addresses the transformation in data security and internet privacy since his revelations, the role of journalism in a democracy, and the potential dangers of unchecked government surveillance. He shares his personal experiences, including the misrepresentation of his wife in the media and the challenges faced by his family. Snowden also comments on the current political climate, the importance of facts over feelings in democratic discourse, and his hopes for the future of privacy and government accountability.
Takeaways
- 🏠 Snowden considers the United States his home and is willing to return under the condition that he is guaranteed a fair trial with the right to explain his actions to a jury.
- 📚 He emphasizes the importance of whistleblowers being able to justify their actions in court, criticizing the Espionage Act for not allowing this and being used against journalistic sources.
- 🤝 Snowden has offered to volunteer his skills to help secure US elections, showing his willingness to assist his country despite the charges against him.
- 🌐 He highlights the lack of distinction between telling secrets to journalists versus foreign governments under current laws, which he sees as a problem.
- 📉 Snowden discusses the shift in public opinion about his actions, noting that the initial hostility has reduced as the benefits of his disclosures have become clear.
- 🔒 He details the extensive capabilities of government surveillance, including hacking into personal devices and collecting metadata, which can be used to infer personal details and habits.
- 💬 Snowden criticizes the current state of discourse, where feelings often take precedence over facts, which he sees as toxic for democracy.
- 📝 He underscores the role of journalism in a democracy, especially in distinguishing between speculation and fact, which is crucial for informed decision-making.
- 🛡️ Snowden argues that mass surveillance programs have not been proven effective in counterterrorism efforts and are more about power and control than public safety.
- 📈 He points out the progress made in terms of data security and surveillance reform since his disclosures, although he acknowledges that more needs to be done.
- 🤔 Snowden reflects on the personal costs of his actions, including the impact on his family and his then-girlfriend (now wife), and the misrepresentations they faced in the media.
Q & A
What is Snowden's primary condition for returning to the United States?
-Snowden's primary condition for returning to the United States is that the government guarantees his right, and every whistleblower's right, to tell the jury why they disclosed classified information. He wants a fair and open trial where the jury can decide if the actions were justified or not.
How does Snowden view the current laws under the Espionage Act?
-Snowden views the current laws under the Espionage Act as problematic because they do not allow for a meaningful defense in court. He argues that the Act is used against whistleblowers and does not distinguish between leaking to journalists and leaking to foreign governments.
What does Snowden say about the government's response to his request for a fair trial?
-Snowden mentions that then Attorney General Eric Holder responded by saying they cannot promise the right to a public interest defense. The government would only promise not to torture him, which Snowden states is not enough.
How does Snowden feel about helping the U.S. government secure its elections?
-Snowden expresses a willingness to volunteer his skills to help secure U.S. elections. He emphasizes that he would do so without needing to be paid, reflecting his commitment to the public interest.
What is Snowden's opinion on Vladimir Putin and the Russian government's human rights record?
-Snowden views Putin as an authoritarian leader and states that the Russian government has a poor record on human rights. He does not believe his opinion of Putin has changed since being in Russia.
How does Snowden respond to the question of why he doesn't face the consequences of his actions in the U.S.?
-Snowden argues that facing the music in the U.S. would not result in a fair trial due to the nature of the Espionage Act. He believes that the Act is designed to prohibit a meaningful defense, and thus, staying in the U.S. would only lead to a sentencing without a proper trial.
What does Snowden think about the public's perception of data privacy?
-Snowden criticizes the notion that only those with something to hide need to be concerned about privacy. He explains that the aggregation of seemingly innocent data can be used to create detailed profiles that can be exploited by governments and corporations.
How does Snowden describe his personal modifications to smartphones to ensure privacy?
-Snowden describes physically removing the microphone and camera from smartphones before using them to ensure they cannot be remotely activated to record or listen in without his knowledge.
What is Snowden's current status regarding his residence in Russia?
-Snowden is in Russia involuntarily, having been stranded there when the U.S. government canceled his passport. He has not actively sought asylum in Russia and has not cooperated with Russian intelligence services.
How does Snowden describe his daily life and work?
-Snowden's daily life is relatively ordinary, consisting of indoor activities and work that involves speaking professionally at various events, such as universities and cybersecurity conferences, and writing.
What is Snowden's stance on the role of journalism in a democracy?
-Snowden emphasizes the critical importance of journalism in a democracy, stating that it is essential for establishing the difference between speculation and fact. He believes that journalism played a key role in bringing about legal changes and increased public awareness of surveillance issues.
Outlines
🏡 Snowden's View on Returning Home and Whistleblower Rights
Edward Snowden discusses his willingness to return to the United States if the government guarantees whistleblowers the right to explain their actions to a jury. He criticizes the Espionage Act for not distinguishing between informing journalists and foreign governments and highlights the importance of a jury's role in assessing the righteousness of an act. Snowden also expresses his readiness to help the government, particularly in securing elections, if asked.
📚 Facing the Music and the Realities of the Espionage Act
Snowden addresses the question of why he did not stay in the U.S. to face charges, explaining that the Espionage Act of 1917 does not allow for a fair defense. He mentions that whistleblowers are not permitted to argue the public benefit of their actions in court. Snowden also talks about his family's support despite the difficulties they faced and shares his thoughts on Donald Trump's impact on civil liberties.
📉 The Impact of Surveillance Revelations and Changes in Law
The paragraph covers Snowden's reflections on the changes that have occurred since the surveillance revelations. He expresses his desire to have come forward sooner and acknowledges the staggering results of his actions. Snowden also discusses the termination of certain surveillance programs and the role of journalism in distinguishing between speculation and fact.
💻 Government Surveillance Capabilities and Digital Privacy
Snowden talks about the extent of government surveillance capabilities, including hacking into personal devices, accessing personal data through tech companies, and the potential for activating microphones and cameras remotely. He emphasizes the importance of digital privacy and the risks of invisible data collection.
🔍 The Consequences of Device Compromise: The Khashoggi Case
In this paragraph, Snowden discusses the case of Jamal Khashoggi, a Washington Post reporter who was murdered allegedly by the Saudi government. Snowden explains how the Saudi regime likely intercepted Khashoggi's communications through hacking the phones of his friends, which allowed them to understand his intentions and ultimately led to his assassination.
🌐 Public Perception of Privacy and the Dangers of 'Nothing to Hide' Argument
Snowden challenges the common belief that surveillance is only a concern for those with something to hide. He discusses the implications of mass data collection, likening it to pollution and highlighting how seemingly innocent data can be aggregated and used to control and manipulate individuals, referencing China's social credit system as an example.
🛠️ Snowden's Personal Measures to Protect Privacy and His Role in Journalism
The paragraph describes Snowden's personal methods to ensure digital privacy, including physically altering his smartphone to remove the microphone and camera. Snowden also clarifies his role in relation to journalism, stating that while he supports and aids journalists, he does not consider himself a journalist.
🤔 Snowden's Reflections on His American Upbringing and Current Residence in Russia
Snowden shares his experiences of growing up in the U.S. and the circumstances that led him to seek asylum in Russia. He emphasizes that he never intended to stay in Russia and that he was en route to Latin America when his passport was canceled. Snowden also discusses the pressure exerted by U.S. officials on countries he approached for asylum.
🌟 The Pulitzer Prize and the Impact of Snowden's Revelations
In this paragraph, Snowden speaks about the recognition given to the journalism that published his revelations, including the Pulitzer Prize for public service journalism. He asserts that despite allegations, no evidence has been presented to show that his disclosures harmed national security.
🚨 The Scope of Snowden's Revelations and Their Impact
Snowden clarifies that he did not publish any stories himself but provided journalists with material that showed government misconduct. He explains the process journalists were required to follow, including notifying the government before publication to allow for an adversarial check. Snowden is confident that no harm occurred as a result of the revelations.
🏛️ The Fourth Amendment and the Founders' Intent for Government Oversight
Snowden reflects on the original intent of the U.S. Constitution's Fourth Amendment and the founders' desire to protect citizens from an overreaching government. He argues that the current state of surveillance is a departure from these principles and calls for a reevaluation of privacy laws to better protect citizens.
📚 Book Discussion and Snowden's Hopes for Returning to the U.S.
The final paragraph involves a discussion about Snowden's book and his hope to eventually return to the United States. Snowden expresses optimism that as time passes and the alleged harms of his actions remain unsubstantiated, people may reevaluate their positions, and he may be able to come home.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Mass Surveillance
💡Whistleblower
💡Espionage Act
💡Data Security
💡Constitutional Rights
💡Public Interest Defense
💡Digital Privacy
💡NSA
💡Encryption
💡Fourth Amendment
💡Privacy Law
Highlights
Snowden emphasizes that the United States will always be his home, and he is willing to return under the condition that whistleblowers are allowed to present their case to a jury.
He criticizes the Espionage Act for not distinguishing between leaking to journalists and foreign spies, and for not allowing juries to consider the whistleblower's motives.
Snowden volunteered to help the U.S. government harden its elections against attacks, without requiring payment, demonstrating his willingness to assist despite his exile.
He clarifies that his actions were intended to reform the NSA, not to destroy it, and that he acted to uphold the ideals that the U.S. is supposed to share.
Snowden's opinion on Putin has not changed, as he views him as an authoritarian leader with a poor human rights record.
The U.S. and Russia have both been involved in electoral interference, with the U.S. interfering in foreign elections more frequently than Russia, according to Snowden.
He argues that the focus should be on securing systems against inevitable attacks, rather than justifying interference based on the actions of others.
Snowden explains that he was charged under the Espionage Act, which does not allow a whistleblower to mount a meaningful defense in court.
He states that if he had stayed in the U.S., he would not have received a fair trial and that the legal system is not equipped to handle cases like his in the modern era.
Snowden's parents, both with security clearances, have been supportive of his actions despite the difficulties they faced.
He has not yet had a wedding ceremony with his wife, but they were married in a courthouse, and he hopes for a future celebration with friends.
Snowden views Trump as a man seeking love and approval through transactional relationships and believes his actions have a negative impact.
He discusses the importance of distinguishing between feelings and facts, especially in the context of democracy and national security.
Mass surveillance programs were found to be unlawful and potentially unconstitutional by U.S. courts, leading to significant reforms.
Snowden believes that journalism is critical in distinguishing between speculation and fact, which is essential for democratic processes.
He has made efforts to physically secure his devices from potential hacking, reflecting the extent of digital surveillance capabilities.
Snowden is actively working to make technology more secure and to protect the confidentiality of communications between sources and journalists.
He describes his daily life as ordinary, despite living in Russia, and he supports himself by speaking professionally and as an author.
Snowden predicts that he will eventually return to the United States, as the harms alleged by the government were never substantiated, and the benefits of his actions are becoming clearer.
Transcripts
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