Why I Became Catholic Instead of Orthodox w/ Dr. Scott Hahn
TLDRIn this insightful discussion, a patron's question about the appeal of Orthodoxy for a Protestant seeking traditional liturgy and the Eucharist is addressed. The speaker, who considered Orthodoxy due to its lack of a Pope and the possibility of being a married clergyman, ultimately rejects it, citing the ethnic divisions within Orthodox churches and the theological dispute over the Filioque clause. He argues that the Holy Spirit's procession from both the Father and the Son is supported by the temporal missions, challenging Orthodox rejection of this doctrine. The conversation also touches on the potential confusion Eastern Catholics might face, as some may lean towards Orthodox beliefs, such as denying the Immaculate Conception.
Takeaways
- 📚 The speaker recommends James LaCutus, who was Orthodox, became Catholic, and eventually the president of Catholic Church for the Faith, for his writings on the topic of Orthodoxy and Catholicism.
- 🛍️ James LaCutus' books can be found on bookfinder.com and possibly Amazon, with bookfinder.com offering a wider and cheaper selection.
- 🤔 The speaker was initially drawn to Orthodoxy due to the lack of a Pope and the possibility of being ordained as a married man, avoiding what he felt would be 'professional suicide' in Catholicism.
- 🏛️ The speaker visited Orthodox churches and realized that Orthodoxy is ethnically defined, with various autocephalous bodies such as Greek, Ukrainian, Estonian, Serbian, and Russian.
- 🏷️ The speaker became suspicious of denominations and the ethnic and nationalistic aspects of the Old Covenant, which he found mirrored in the ethnic divisions within Orthodoxy.
- 🤝 The speaker felt like an outsider in Greek Orthodox churches, which were more Greek than he could be, reinforcing his suspicion of denominationalism.
- 🔄 The speaker discusses the Filioque clause, which was inserted by the Western Church after the Council of Nicaea and is a point of contention between the Orthodox and Catholic Churches.
- 📜 The speaker believes the Orthodox are wrong to deny that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, arguing that the temporal missions reveal the eternal processions.
- 🧐 The speaker suggests that the affirmation of the full divinity of the Holy Spirit was necessary due to semi-Arian heresies in the West, prompting the insertion of the Filioque.
- 🤔 The speaker ponders whether Eastern Catholics should add the Filioque to their beliefs to avoid adopting Orthodox views or denying Catholic teachings.
- 🙏 The speaker expresses a desire for further discussion on the topic, indicating the complexity and depth of the theological differences between Orthodoxy and Catholicism.
Q & A
What is Eric Holmberg's question about in the transcript?
-Eric Holmberg asks for advice for a Protestant who is interested in traditional liturgy and the Eucharist and is considering Orthodoxy, seeking the best refutation of the Orthodox claim to be the true church founded by Jesus.
Who is James LaCutus and what is significant about his journey?
-James LaCutus was an Orthodox Christian who became Catholic and later the president of the Catholic Church of the Faith. His writings are recommended for those interested in understanding the transition from Orthodoxy to Catholicism.
Why did the speaker consider Orthodoxy initially?
-The speaker was initially drawn to Orthodoxy due to the absence of the Pope, which was a stumbling block for him, and the possibility of being ordained as a married man, which was not an option in Catholicism.
What realization did the speaker have about Orthodox churches during his visits?
-The speaker realized that Orthodox churches are often defined by their ethnicity, such as Greek, Ukrainian, Estonian, Serbian, and Russian, which made him feel like an outsider.
What is the term coined by the speaker regarding Orthodox churches?
-The speaker coined the term 'denominationalism' to describe the phenomenon of Orthodox churches being defined by their ethnicity, similar to how denominations are defined by their beliefs or practices.
What is the Filioque clause and why was it inserted into the Creed?
-The Filioque clause, stating that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, was inserted into the Creed after the Council of Nicaea to counter the semi-Arian heresy and to affirm the full divinity of the Holy Spirit.
Why did the Eastern Orthodox Church not accept the Filioque clause?
-The Eastern Orthodox Church did not accept the Filioque clause because it was seen as an unauthorised addition to the Creed and it exacerbated the existing tensions between the Eastern and Western Churches.
What is the speaker's stance on the eternal processions of the Holy Spirit?
-The speaker argues that if the temporal missions reveal the eternal processions, and everyone affirms that the Father and the Son send the Holy Spirit, then the Holy Spirit must proceed from both the Father and the Son.
What does the speaker suggest about Eastern Catholics and their beliefs?
-The speaker suggests that some Eastern Catholics may be inclined to adopt Orthodox beliefs or deny Catholic teachings, such as the Immaculate Conception, possibly due to a misunderstanding or a desire to align more closely with Orthodoxy.
What advice does the speaker give to those who are considering Orthodoxy?
-The speaker advises individuals to examine the issues carefully, such as the ethnic nature of Orthodox churches and the theological implications of the Filioque clause, before making a decision about their religious affiliation.
What is the final recommendation for those interested in the topic discussed in the transcript?
-The speaker recommends watching the full episode for a more in-depth discussion and engaging with the sponsors and patrons who support the production of such content.
Outlines
🤔 Protestant's Inquiry on Orthodoxy and Catholicism
The speaker addresses a question from Eric Holmberg, a patron, about the appeal of Orthodoxy for Protestants seeking traditional liturgy and the Eucharist. The speaker suggests reading James LaCutus, a former Orthodox who became Catholic and wrote extensively on the subject. The speaker also shares his personal journey, initially considering Orthodoxy due to its lack of a central figure like the Pope, but ultimately rejecting it due to its ethnic divisions and the issue of the filioque clause, which the Orthodox reject. The filioque was added to the Nicene Creed by the Western Church to combat semi-Arian heresies and to affirm the Holy Spirit's divinity, a point of contention between the Eastern and Western Churches leading to the Great Schism of 1054.
📢 Encouragement to Subscribe for Updates
In the concluding part of the script, the speaker thanks the sponsors and patrons for their support and encourages viewers to subscribe to the channel and click the notification bell to stay updated with new episodes. This call to action ensures that the audience remains engaged and informed about the latest content.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Protestants
💡Tradition
💡Eucharist
💡Orthodoxy
💡James Lacatus
💡Autocephalous
💡Ethnicity
💡Filioque
💡Semi-Arian Heresy
💡Mutual Excommunications
💡Eastern Catholics
Highlights
A question from Eric Holmberg, a patron, about the appeal of Orthodoxy for a Protestant seeking traditional liturgy and the Eucharist.
Recommendation of James LaCutus' writings, who transitioned from Orthodox to Catholic, and his role as the president of Catholic Church for the Faith.
Availability of James LaCutus' books on Bookfinder.com and possibly Amazon.
Personal journey of considering Orthodoxy due to the absence of the Pope as a stumbling block.
The possibility of being ordained as a married man in the Orthodox Church, contrasting with Catholic requirements.
Realization of Orthodoxy's ethnic divisions, such as Greek, Ukrainian, Estonian, Serbian, and Russian, which contradict the universality of the Church.
Concern about denominationalism and the proliferation of denominations within Orthodoxy.
Feeling of being an outsider in a Greek Orthodox Church due to its strong ethnic identity.
Discussion on the Filioque clause, its historical context, and the theological dispute between the East and West.
Orthodox rejection of the Filioque and the theological argument for the Holy Spirit proceeding from both the Father and the Son.
The importance of understanding the eternal processions of the Holy Trinity through the temporal missions.
The theological argument that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son based on the temporal missions.
Concern about Eastern Catholics adopting Orthodox beliefs and denying Catholic teachings.
The dilemma of an Eastern Catholic who may not want to accept the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception.
The desire for a deeper discussion on the Filioque and its implications for the unity of the Church.
Acknowledgment of the need for further conversation on these complex theological issues.
Invitation to watch the full episode for a more in-depth exploration of the topic.
Gratitude expressed to sponsors and patrons for their support.
Encouragement for viewers to subscribe and enable notifications for new episodes.
Transcripts
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