We Don't MOVE ON From Grief. We Move Forward With It | Dr. Joanne Cacciatore on We Do Hard Things

The Mark Drager Show Podcast
12 Jul 202251:17
EducationalLearning
32 Likes 10 Comments

TLDRIn this profound dialogue, Dr. Joanne Cacciatore, a tenured research professor at Arizona State University, delves into the intricacies of fear, grief, and trauma. She emphasizes that fear is a protective emotion, but it's the suppression of emotions that leads to trouble. Dr. Cacciatore, who has dedicated her life to assisting individuals through trauma and grief, challenges the notion of chasing happiness and instead promotes living a life of service and meaning. She candidly discusses the transformative power of confronting existential threats, such as death, and how it can lead to a more authentic and connected life. The conversation explores the importance of compassion and the profound impact of loss, particularly the death of a child, on a person's life. Dr. Cacciatore shares her insights on the isolation experienced by those who have suffered a traumatic loss and the societal discomfort in addressing such topics. She advocates for a more open and supportive approach to grief, encouraging people to live fully and love without reservation, despite the inherent risks and fears associated with life's uncertainties.

Takeaways
  • 😌 **Acceptance of Emotions**: Dr. Joanne Cacciatore emphasizes that acceptance is not about being okay with a loss but acknowledging and integrating the emotions that come with it.
  • πŸ€— **Compassion as a Key**: Compassion, derived from being with the suffering of others, is the gateway to unity and the solution to violence in the world.
  • πŸ‘₯ **Connection Through Shared Suffering**: Opening our hearts to others' pain can lead to a profound shift in our perception and understanding, fostering a sense of oneness.
  • 🚫 **Avoidance of Suppression**: Suppressing emotions can lead to trouble; it's healthier to have a conversation with our fears and accept their presence without letting them control us.
  • 🐾 **Animals as Support**: Pets have been found to provide better grief support than human groups, highlighting their importance in times of emotional distress.
  • 🧠 **The Neocortex's Role**: Our cognitive abilities can sometimes hinder our ability to provide support, as we fear the potential for similar loss.
  • πŸ‘Ά **Parental Grief**: The grief experienced by parents who lose a child is primal and visceral, unlike any other form of loss, and deeply impacts their identity.
  • πŸ’” **Guilt and Shame**: It's important to acknowledge feelings of guilt and shame after a loss without letting them define or paralyze us.
  • 🌐 **The Isolation of Grief**: Grieving individuals often feel isolated and disconnected from society, which can exacerbate their suffering.
  • πŸ“ˆ **Growth Through Grief**: While the cost is high, working through grief can lead to personal growth and a life of meaning and service to others.
  • πŸ›‘οΈ **Fear as a Protector**: Fear is a natural emotion meant to protect us from perceived threats; recognizing its role can help us manage it better.
Q & A
  • What is Dr. Joanne Cacciatore's professional focus at Arizona State University?

    -Dr. Joanne Cacciatore is a tenured research professor at Arizona State University who is dedicated to helping people work through trauma and grief.

  • Why does Dr. Cacciatore believe that fear is not a bad emotion?

    -Dr. Cacciatore believes that fear is a protective emotion designed to alert us to threats and protect us from harm. It's the suppression of emotions, including fear, that can lead to trouble.

  • What does Dr. Cacciatore suggest about the pursuit of happiness?

    -Dr. Cacciatore suggests that trying to chase happiness doesn't work and that it's an inside job. Happiness can only ensue when you act in the service of others.

  • How does Dr. Cacciatore describe the experience of losing a child?

    -Dr. Cacciatore describes the experience as having a cellular ache, with every cell in the body yearning for the child who died. It's a visceral, primal grief that is inexplicable and cannot be understood unless experienced from the inside.

  • What does Dr. Cacciatore say about the societal response to grief?

    -Dr. Cacciatore criticizes the societal response to grief, stating that people often avoid the topic, which can lead to the grieving person feeling marginalized and lonely. She emphasizes the importance of acknowledging and supporting those who are grieving.

  • Why does Dr. Cacciatore argue against the idea of using drugs like naltrexone to treat prolonged grief?

    -Dr. Cacciatore argues against this approach because the desired mechanism of action for such drugs is to sever the connection to one's closest loved ones, which she sees as emotionally harmful and a form of psychological violence. She believes that grief should be fully experienced and integrated rather than medicated away.

  • What does Dr. Cacciatore suggest is the most helpful way to support someone who is grieving?

    -Dr. Cacciatore suggests that the most helpful way to support someone who is grieving is through compassion and presence. This includes acknowledging the reality of the loss, being willing to sit with the person in their pain, and not trying to rush them through their grieving process.

  • How does Dr. Cacciatore define acceptance in the context of grief?

    -Dr. Cacciatore defines acceptance as acknowledging and accepting the feelings associated with the loss, rather than trying to accept or be okay with the fact of the death. It's about integrating the presence of the loved one's absence into one's life.

  • What is Dr. Cacciatore's view on the concept of 'opportunity' arising from loss?

    -Dr. Cacciatore is critical of the concept, stating that while meaning and beauty can come from pain, it's always at too high a cost. She prefers the term 'meaning' over 'opportunity', emphasizing that the profound energy of grief can be channeled into a meaningful life of service to others.

  • What does Dr. Cacciatore believe is the key to living a full and meaningful life?

    -Dr. Cacciatore believes that compassion is the key to living a full and meaningful life. She suggests that by being compassionate and being with the suffering of others, we can create a shift in ourselves and in others, leading to a more unified and caring existence.

  • How does Dr. Cacciatore approach the topic of death and mortality?

    -Dr. Cacciatore approaches the topic of death and mortality by encouraging people to live consciously with the reality of their own mortality. She believes that by acknowledging and accepting our own finitude, we can live more authentic, vulnerable, and connected lives.

Outlines
00:00
πŸ˜€ Understanding Fear as a Protective Emotion

Dr. Joanne Cacciatore, a research professor at Arizona State University, discusses the role of fear as a protective emotion. She emphasizes that fear is meant to safeguard us from threats, but it's our suppression of emotions that leads to trouble. As someone dedicated to helping people navigate trauma and grief, she shares insights on how acknowledging and conversing with our fear can be beneficial. She also touches on the importance of not chasing happiness but finding it through service to others.

05:01
πŸŽ“ Confronting Death and Trauma for a Fuller Life

Dr. Cacciatore further explores the significance of addressing death and trauma head-on. She posits that such confrontations with existential threats can profoundly shift our awareness and lead to a more authentic and connected life. She explains that avoiding these topics doesn't help us live fully and instead creates a fragmented existence. Her work and research are centered around helping people deal with traumatic grief, such as the loss of a child, and she stresses the importance of community and compassion in these processes.

10:02
🐾 The Comfort of Animals in Grieving

In this paragraph, Dr. Cacciatore discusses a study she conducted about the sources of grief support. Surprisingly, animals and pets were found to be the most effective source of support, surpassing human groups. This is attributed to the human neocortex, which creates fear-based narratives that distance people from the grieving process. She also talks about the loneliness that is a hallmark of traumatic grief and how societal discomfort with the topic marginalizes those who are suffering.

15:03
πŸ‘ͺ The Impact of Child Loss on Parents

Dr. Cacciatore delves into the unique pain parents face when they lose a child. She differentiates between the fear of one's own death and the devastation of losing a child. She shares her personal experiences and reflections, noting that the daily contemplation of her own mortality is a constant hum in her life. Her work primarily involves supporting those who have experienced the traumatic loss of a child, and she stresses the importance of living consciously and fearlessly within the reality of life's brevity.

20:05
πŸ’” The Invaluable Nature of Grief and Loss

The discussion continues with Dr. Cacciatore sharing her views on the language used to describe grief and loss. She expresses her discomfort with the concept of 'opportunity' arising from loss, advocating instead for the recognition of 'meaning.' She argues that finding beauty or joy after loss is a personal and internal process, and that external pressures to move on quickly are unhelpful. Her personal experience with the death of her daughter and her work with grieving individuals underscore the depth of her understanding of the topic.

25:06
🧠 The Misguided Approaches to Grief Treatment

Dr. Cacciatore criticizes the approach of using pharmaceuticals to treat grief, as seen in the case of the drug naltrexone. She finds it concerning that the intended effect of the drug is to sever the connection to the deceased, which she sees as a form of psychological violence. She argues that grief is a natural response that should not be pathologized or medicalized, and that society's focus on happiness and avoidance of pain is detrimental to the grieving process.

30:10
🀝 The Power of Compassion and Connection

In the final paragraph, Dr. Cacciatore stresses the importance of compassion in dealing with grief and loss. She believes that compassion, literally being with the suffering of others, is the key to a more meaningful and connected life. She shares her personal philosophy that there is no 'other,' only a unified oneness, and that acting compassionately toward others is also an act of compassion toward oneself. Her work and life are dedicated to fostering this sense of compassion in a world that she sees as deeply in need of it.

Mindmap
Keywords
πŸ’‘Fear
Fear is an emotion that serves as a protective mechanism, alerting us to potential threats. In the video, Dr. Joanne Cacciatore discusses how acknowledging rather than suppressing fear can lead to a more authentic and connected life. She uses the example of fearing the loss of a loved one to illustrate how fear can be a catalyst for living a more conscious and meaningful life.
πŸ’‘Compassion
Compassion is defined as 'suffering with' another and is presented as the core of truly understanding and alleviating the suffering of others. It is the ability to be with someone in their pain, grief, or fear without judgment. In the context of the video, Dr. Cacciatore emphasizes that compassion is the gateway to unity and the key to overcoming violence and suffering, both towards oneself and others.
πŸ’‘Trauma
Trauma is a deeply distressing or disturbing experience that can have long-lasting effects on an individual's mental and emotional state. Dr. Cacciatore, a researcher and professor, dedicates her work to helping people navigate through trauma and grief. The video discusses how confronting existential threats, such as the trauma of losing a loved one, can lead to personal growth and a deeper awareness of life's impermanence.
πŸ’‘Grief
Grief is the emotional response to loss, particularly to the loss of someone through death. The video explores the concept of grief in depth, emphasizing its transformative potential. Dr. Cacciatore shares her insights on how working through grief can lead to a more authentic and connected life, as well as the importance of allowing oneself to fully experience the process of grieving.
πŸ’‘Acceptance
Acceptance, in the context of the video, refers to acknowledging and integrating the reality of loss and the emotions that accompany it. It is not about being 'okay' with the loss but rather about accepting the feelings that arise from it. Dr. Cacciatore clarifies that acceptance does not mean denying the pain or pretending the loss did not occur, but rather learning to live with the 'presence of absence.'
πŸ’‘Emotional Suppression
Emotional suppression involves the act of pushing down or ignoring one's emotions, which can lead to further emotional trouble. The video script warns against suppressing emotions like fear, shame, or guilt, suggesting that acknowledging and understanding these emotions is healthier. Dr. Cacciatore explains that by not suppressing emotions, individuals can engage in a dialogue with their fear, which can be a protective force.
πŸ’‘Existential Threat
An existential threat is a serious threat to one's existence or survival. In the video, Dr. Cacciatore talks about how confronting existential threats, such as death or the loss of a loved one, can change one's perspective on life and lead to a more authentic and connected existence. It is a central theme in the discussion of how to live a more meaningful life.
πŸ’‘Happiness Cult
The 'happiness cult' is a term used in the video to describe the societal pressure to constantly pursue happiness and avoid negative emotions. Dr. Cacciatore criticizes this mindset, arguing that it creates a hostile environment for those who are not always happy. She suggests that happiness is not something that can be pursued but rather something that ensues when one acts in the service of others.
πŸ’‘Connection
Connection refers to the bond or link between individuals, which is emphasized in the video as a crucial element for healing and understanding. Dr. Cacciatore discusses how connection with others, including through shared grief and suffering, can foster empathy, compassion, and a sense of unity. It is suggested that genuine connection can help mitigate feelings of loneliness and isolation that often accompany grief and trauma.
πŸ’‘Prolonged Grief Disorder
Prolonged Grief Disorder is a condition characterized by intense and long-lasting grief that significantly impairs a person's functioning. In the video, Dr. Cacciatore expresses concern over the medicalization of grief, particularly the use of drugs like naltrexone to treat what is considered 'abnormal' grieving. She argues against the idea of rushing through the grieving process or treating it as a disorder that needs a quick fix.
πŸ’‘Spirituality
Spirituality in the video is presented as a personal journey and practice that can help individuals cope with grief and suffering. Dr. Cacciatore suggests that spirituality is not necessarily a way to escape pain but rather a path to engage with it. She uses the example of Jesus weeping to illustrate that spiritual practices can coexist with, and even embrace, human suffering.
Highlights

Fear is a protective emotion designed to alert us to threats and can be managed through conversation and understanding.

Dr. Joanne Cacciatore, a tenured research professor at Arizona State University, specializes in helping people work through trauma and grief.

Chasing happiness is not effective; it is an inside job that comes from serving others.

Confronting existential threats, such as death, can lead to a more authentic and connected life.

Acceptance of finitude and the inevitability of loss can prevent a fragmented life and promote a fuller existence.

Ambitious individuals often encounter the idea of not dying with regrets, which can be challenging to internalize.

Dr. Cacciatore discusses the difference between facing one's own death and the death of a loved one, particularly a child.

Living with the constant presence of mortality can push past fear and lead to a life lived fearlessly.

Traumatic grief, such as the loss of a child, can lead to profound loneliness and a sense of disconnection from society.

Compassion and empathy for those who have suffered a loss can lead to a more connected and kinder society.

The concept of 'prolonged grief disorder' and its treatment with drugs like naltrexone is critiqued for potentially causing detachment.

Dr. Cacciatore emphasizes the importance of community and connection in dealing with grief and trauma.

The societal 'happiness cult' is criticized for creating an environment hostile to those who are not constantly happy.

Grieving individuals often find more support and understanding from pets than from humans.

Dr. Cacciatore shares personal experiences with grief and how it has shaped her perspective on life and helping others.

The importance of fully experiencing and inhabiting grief is discussed as a path to a meaningful life.

Dr. Cacciatore advocates for a shift in societal attitudes towards grief, promoting acceptance of emotions rather than avoidance.

The interview concludes with a reflection on the power of compassion as a means to connect with others and alleviate suffering.

Transcripts
Rate This

5.0 / 5 (0 votes)

Thanks for rating: