Long covid and long vaccine
TLDRIn this insightful discussion, Professor Robert Clancy, a renowned immunologist, delves into the complexities of Post-Acute Sequelae of SARS-CoV-2 infection (PASC), commonly known as Long COVID. Clancy explains that Long COVID can be characterized by two main components: post-viral fatigue and cognitive defects, often referred to as 'brain fog.' He also addresses the emergence of similar symptoms in individuals who have received COVID-19 vaccinations, suggesting that the persistence of the spike protein from the virus, whether from infection or vaccine, is a common denominator. Clancy highlights the importance of understanding the underlying immune response and the potential for self-destructive immune reactions. He outlines several strategies for managing Long COVID, including enhancing immune resilience, targeting the persistent spike protein, and considering the role of the gut microbiome. The conversation underscores the need for a nuanced approach to treatment, emphasizing the individual variability in patient responses and the importance of not exacerbating the condition through additional vaccinations.
Takeaways
- 📚 Professor Robert Clancy, a renowned immunologist, discusses his original work on long COVID and vaccine-related issues without the pressure of needing publications.
- 🔬 Long COVID, or 'long coov,' is characterized by a range of symptoms persisting for more than 3 months post-infection, including post-viral infection fatigue and cognitive defects like 'brain fog'.
- 🧬 The spike protein from the SARS-CoV-2 virus, whether from infection or vaccination, can persist in the body and lead to similar symptoms, indicating a common cause for post-vaccine and post-infection long COVID.
- 💉 The mRNA vaccine can disseminate throughout the body, potentially leading to the expression of spike protein on various cells for an extended period, which may contribute to long-term symptoms.
- 🧵 There is a subset of people who are more prone to developing persistent antigen issues, possibly due to a less effective immune response, which might explain why some individuals suffer from long COVID or post-vaccine syndromes.
- 🏃♂️ Exercise-induced fatigue is a common symptom in long COVID, where patients experience a lowered energy ceiling, leading to increased fatigue after exertion.
- 🛡️ Immunologists approach the treatment of long COVID by looking at mechanisms across different systems, aiming to understand and address the root causes rather than focusing on individual symptoms.
- 🧐 The concept of 'immune resilience' is introduced as a potential strategy to help the body handle infections more effectively and reduce the risk of developing long COVID.
- 🧫 Recent research has highlighted the importance of the microbiome in long COVID, suggesting that gut health can influence airway conditions and vice versa.
- 💊 Ivermectin, an anti-parasitic drug, has shown promise in some studies for blocking the spike protein's effects and improving oxygen saturation in patients with COVID-19.
- 🚫 Repeated vaccination of individuals with long COVID is discouraged, as it may exacerbate symptoms rather than provide relief.
Q & A
What is the main focus of the discussion with Professor Robert Clancy?
-The main focus of the discussion is on post-vaccine and post-infection long COVID, including the symptoms, underlying causes, and potential management strategies for these conditions.
What are the two central components of long COVID according to Professor Clancy?
-The two central components of long COVID are energy-activated fatigue and cognitive defects, often referred to as 'brain fog.'
How does the concept of 'immune resilience' relate to the discussion on long COVID?
-Immune resilience refers to the ability of an individual's immune system to effectively handle infections and avoid complications like long COVID. The concept is important as it may help explain why some people develop long COVID while others recover quickly.
What is the role of the Spike protein in the development of long COVID and post-vaccine syndromes?
-The Spike protein, whether from the virus itself or produced by the body in response to the vaccine, appears to be a persistent antigen that can lead to chronic inflammation and tissue damage, contributing to the symptoms of long COVID and post-vaccine syndromes.
What is the significance of the shift from IgM to IgG antibodies in the context of chronic fatigue illnesses?
-The shift from IgM to IgG antibodies indicates the body's ability to mount an effective immune response against an infection. A deficiency in this shift may suggest an ineffective immune response, which could be associated with chronic fatigue illnesses.
How does the common mucosal system theory relate to the gut microbiome's impact on long COVID?
-The common mucosal system theory suggests that the immune system's architecture is interconnected across different mucosal surfaces, including the gut. This implies that disturbances in the gut microbiome can influence the immune response in the airways and vice versa, potentially impacting the development of long COVID.
What are the potential management strategies for long COVID discussed by Professor Clancy?
-The potential management strategies discussed include enhancing immune resilience, addressing the persistent antigen issue (Spike protein), considering the role of the gut microbiome, avoiding further vaccination in those with chronic fatigue symptoms, and addressing the individual's specific health issues.
Why does Professor Clancy suggest not giving additional vaccines to those with long COVID?
-Professor Clancy suggests not giving additional vaccines to those with long COVID because it may exacerbate their symptoms, as their immune systems may already be overburdened or dysfunctional, similar to not vaccinating someone with chronic fatigue syndrome.
What is the relevance of short-chain fatty acids in the context of the gut microbiome and long COVID?
-Short-chain fatty acids, produced by certain gut bacteria, can influence the immune system and overall health. A deficiency in these acids, as seen in some long COVID patients, may indicate an imbalance in the gut microbiome that could be contributing to their symptoms.
How does the concept of 'don't feed the syndrome' apply to the management of long COVID?
-The concept of 'don't feed the syndrome' suggests that further interventions, such as additional vaccinations, that may worsen the symptoms or prolong the illness should be avoided. In the context of long COVID, this means not administering vaccines that could potentially intensify the fatigue and other chronic symptoms.
What is the potential role of fecal microbiota transplants (FMT) in managing long COVID symptoms?
-FMT could potentially be used to reset the gut microbiome, which may have a positive impact on long COVID symptoms. This approach has shown promise in improving fatigue and other symptoms in patients with non-specific gut issues, suggesting it could be a potential strategy for managing long COVID.
Outlines
👨🏫 Introduction and Welcome
The paragraph begins with a warm welcome to the talk, particularly extending it to Professor Robert Clancy who has returned from Sydney. The host expresses gratitude to the professor for his participation and acknowledges his extensive qualifications in medicine, science, and pathology, as well as his prestigious Australia Medal. The conversation then transitions into discussing Professor Clancy's recent work on long COVID and vaccine-related complications, highlighting the advantage of his career stage where he can focus on original work without the pressure of publication. The professor provides insights into post-vaccine and post-infection long COVID syndromes, describing the symptoms and challenges faced by patients, and emphasizing the complexity of the conditions due to the variety of persistent symptoms.
🧬 Understanding Long COVID and Vaccine Injury
This paragraph delves deeper into the specifics of long COVID and vaccine injury, with Professor Clancy explaining the underlying causes and symptoms. He discusses the Epstein-Barr virus and its role in causing fatigue illnesses, as well as the structural abnormalities seen in long COVID patients. The conversation then shifts to the similarities between long COVID post-vaccine and post-infection, noting the persistent spike protein as the common cause. The professor also touches on the lack of understanding and confusion surrounding these conditions, emphasizing the need for a comprehensive approach to managing them effectively.
💡 The Role of mRNA Vaccines
In this paragraph, the focus is on the role of mRNA vaccines and how they contribute to the development of long COVID symptoms in some individuals. Professor Clancy explains the mechanism of mRNA vaccines and their potential to cause persistent spike protein production throughout the body, leading to chronic inflammation and tissue damage. He also addresses the concern of whether the mRNA could integrate into DNA, causing further issues, and provides his view that this is unlikely. The discussion highlights the importance of understanding the pathophysiology of these conditions to develop effective management strategies.
🏃♀️ Fatigue Proneness and Immune Response
The conversation now turns to the concept of fatigue proneness and how it relates to the development of chronic fatigue syndromes. Professor Clancy suggests that about 20% of people may be more susceptible to persistent antigen production and fatigue due to a less effective immune response. He references experiences with elite athletes and their susceptibility to overtraining syndrome, drawing parallels with long COVID. The discussion also touches on the role of T-lymphocytes in destroying cells expressing spike protein as foreign antigens, leading to structural damage in various systems of the body.
🩺 Management Strategies for Chronic Fatigue
In this paragraph, the focus shifts to potential management strategies for chronic fatigue conditions, including long COVID. Professor Clancy outlines several approaches, such as enhancing immune resilience, addressing persistent antigen issues with specific enzyme packages or ivermectin, and managing the microbiome. He also discusses the importance of not exacerbating the condition with additional vaccines and addressing the psychosocial impacts of the illness. The conversation emphasizes the need for further research and clinical trials to better understand and treat these complex conditions.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Long COVID
💡Post-vaccine long COVID
💡Spike protein
💡Immunology
💡Chronic fatigue syndrome
💡Epstein-Barr virus
💡Immune resilience
💡Ivermectin
💡Microbiome
💡Fatigue-prone phenotype
💡Antiviral treatment
Highlights
Professor Robert Clancy discusses the two main components of long COVID: energy-activated fatigue and cognitive defects like 'brain fog'.
Long COVID patients experience a mix of symptoms including structural damage to tissues such as the brain and heart.
Clancy explains the similarity between post-vaccine long COVID and post-infection long COVID, highlighting the persistent spike protein as the common cause.
The spike protein from the vaccine can be expressed in the body for months or more, potentially leading to long-term issues.
Clancy suggests that a subset of people may be more prone to developing persistent non-resolved antigen, leading to post-vaccine fatigue.
He proposes the concept of 'immune resilience', which could potentially help the body handle infections more effectively and prevent complications like long COVID.
Clancy discusses the potential role of the microbiome in long COVID, suggesting that gut health could influence airway conditions.
The idea that managing the microbiome through interventions like fecal microbiome transplants could improve fatigue symptoms is explored.
Clancy warns against giving additional vaccines to those with long COVID, likening it to 'putting petrol on the fire'.
The importance of not overlooking mental health in long COVID patients is emphasized, with the suggestion that reactive depression and anxiety are common responses to the condition.
The discussion includes the potential for using ivermectin to block the effects of the spike protein and improve oxygen saturation in patients.
Clancy mentions the need for randomized control trials to study the effects of ivermectin in treating long COVID.
The role of specific bacteria and short-chain fatty acids in the gut is discussed in relation to their potential impact on long COVID symptoms.
The concept of a 'common mucosal system' is introduced to explain how the health of one mucosal surface, like the gut, can affect another, like the airways.
Clancy shares his clinical observations of patients with long COVID who have shown improvement after treatment with ivermectin.
The importance of understanding the underlying mechanisms of long COVID for effective patient management is stressed.
The discussion suggests that eradicating the virus from the body could lead to patient recovery, assuming no irreversible tissue damage has occurred.
Transcripts
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